Ren Zhengfei’s dialogue with artificial intelligence experts： 20,000 words： 5G is just pediatrics
On the afternoon of September 26th, in Shenzhen, Ren Zhengfei, the founder of Huawei, talked with Jerry Kaplan and Peter Koklen, two artificial intelligence experts. The three of them discussed the problems and challenges of an intelligent society driven by new technologies such as 5G and Ai around the three themes of innovation, rules and trust. The prosperity and development of new technologies need the strong supervision and governance of the government, and called for the cooperation of global industries.
Talking about the trust of western countries in Huawei, Ren Zhengfei said that Europe has given Huawei many opportunities on a large scale, and the whole world has also given Huawei many opportunities. "I think this is already very tolerant, I am already satisfied, and I can’t make everyone understand us, at least in a short time."
Earlier, Ren Zhengfei had suggested that Huawei could license 5G technology to companies in western countries to restore trust.
In the discussion on September 26, he reiterated this point and emphasized that it was exclusively authorized to a western company. "We think this company should be an American company. Because Europe has its own 5G, South Korea and Japan also have their own things, which should be adjusted in the process of improvement and development. However, the United States lacks this thing now, and we should give exclusive permission to American companies, and it can compete with us all over the world, not only in the market scope of the United States, but also on a global scale, except, of course, Mars, the moon and the sun. "
"The purpose of doing this is to hope that we will continue to start at the same starting line as the whole world. I believe that in the second round, maybe we will win.I have already said that 5G is a pediatric matter, and the biggest industry in the future should be artificial intelligence. We hope that in artificial intelligence, we don’t create a second entity list.Because the second entity list of artificial intelligence is impossible to exist, because it is based on software, we may surpass it, but we don’t want to have conflicts again. Ren Zhengfei said.
According to Ren Zhengfei, Huawei’s 5G authorization for this American company will be fair and non-discriminatory. "The experience of source program, source code, hardware technology, measurement and control, delivery and production, including his chip design, can also be authorized. We hope that in the future, at the new starting line, we will start again with Europe, Japan, South Korea and the United States on the same starting line and contribute to mankind together again. Because we are confident that we can win, we are confident to open up. "
For the more foreword 6G development, Ren Zhengfei said that Huawei’s 6G is parallel to 5G development, 6G is millimeter wave, and the real large-scale use of 6G is still very early for our company, and there are still some processes. I believe Huawei will lead 6 G.
Regarding the host’s concern that there will be technological "decoupling" between China and the United States, Ren Zhengfei believes that the possibility of two ecosystems and division in the world should not exist. In the Internet age, communication has been very widespread. It is impossible for American professors’ papers to be put in the refrigerator, and no one can see them. If American engineers can’t see them, the United States can’t make products. As soon as he is released, everyone can see it on the internet.
"In the Internet age, it is probably unrealistic to talk about the decoupling of science and technology and then to divide regional autonomy."
The following is a record of the dialogue, with nearly 20,000 words:
hostWelcome to the new coffee conversation with Ren Zhengfei. Today, our topic is very interesting. We will talk about innovation rules and trust, and we will pay attention to innovation. After all, we also know that the development of new technologies is changing with each passing day. At the same time, we should also look at the rules and what kind of rules we should use to manage the development of new technologies. At the same time, we will also talk about trust, which is a very important issue, and we will explore trust issues, such as technology decoupling and the global framework for managing new technologies.
Introduce today’s dialogue guests: the key person who is very important today — — Mr. Ren Zhengfei, founder and CEO of Huawei, is accompanied by two very famous scientists and futurists, Mr. Jerry Kaplan from the United States, who is a writer, futurist, and pioneer of brush computing and tablet computers. There is also Mr. Peter Cochrane, an academician of the Royal Institute of Engineering, a winner of the Queen’s Innovation Award and a former CTO of BT. There is also a very important guest, Mr. Zhang Wenlin, president of Huawei’s strategy. Welcome.
Let’s start with President Ren. Mr. Ren, our discussion today is about innovation. What kind of emerging technologies do you think will emerge in the future?
Ren Zhengfei:Because I think human technology is on the eve of the outbreak of new theories and technologies today, and electronic technology will soon reach 3 nanometers and 1 nanometer, but it will not stop and will continue to move forward. What is this progressive thing? We don’t know yet. In the past, we hoped to realize it with graphene, but today we still don’t know.
In our time, gene technology will make a great breakthrough in the next twenty or thirty years, which will play a great role in biotechnology, life science and technology, and nano-medicine. Under such circumstances, what will this social form look like if electrons infiltrate into more sophisticated time and combine with genes? It is impossible for us to think of it.
Now science and technology have developed to use molecular science to collect new materials, and new materials and technologies are constantly emerging. I think we are completely unclear now. At this time, it is possible for artificial intelligence to be used on a large scale. We are still not very clear about its progress, promotion and improvement in society. During this period, breakthroughs in quantum technology, optical technology and large-scale new technologies will all produce breakthroughs in the next two or three decades. Breakthroughs in interdisciplinary and single-discipline technologies have brought us new opportunities. How should we meet such a new era in the face of new opportunities? I still don’t know, I don’t know. I think the new era has opened a powerful window of opportunity for us. In this window of opportunity, how can we make more efforts to unite with scientists, engineers and the whole world to meet this new era? This is what we expect. For the unbelievable future, we need not be uneasy, but should bravely meet this new era.
host: Mr. Ren, just now you talked about AI artificial intelligence. In fact, many people talk about the word intelligence. They are worried that artificial intelligence will replace work. What do you think?
Zhengfei RenArtificial intelligence will only create greater wealth and provide greater efficiency for this society. Since there is more wealth and efficiency, there will be other channels for employment, but artificial intelligence will affect and shape the core variables of this country. This country will undergo earth-shaking changes because of the application of artificial intelligence.
In this case, we should turn it into the driving force for the development of the whole international society and social structure. Its own development depends on a country’s basic ability, which is the provision of education, talents, mature algorithms, computing power and infrastructure (infrastructure includes supercomputers, super-large-scale mature systems, super-mature connections and a series of other support). I think that after the arrival of this era, human society will become more prosperous.
Regarding the employment problem, I think a new proposition has been put forward for a society and a country, because we have experienced the industrial revolution era. The requirements for every employee in the industrial revolution era can adapt to this social structure as long as they enter the middle level. In the era of artificial intelligence, it may be necessary to improve the level of artificial education, and every country should work hard at this point. It is not necessarily a big country that will succeed. I think many small and medium-sized countries can greatly improve their production capacity due to the realization of artificial intelligence. As long as there is greater ability to create wealth, there will be more opportunities for people.
hostJerry, you are an expert in AI. Do you agree with President Ren?
Jerry KaplanFirst of all, I am very honored to be able to talk with such well-known entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs on the same stage. Thank you very much for this opportunity. Just like what President Ren just said, President Ren just gave a very full explanation. I think President Ren is like Shakespeare. I don’t know what to say after he finished, but the host hopes that there will be some sparks between us.
First of all, I don’t think artificial intelligence is magic. In fact, it’s not really about intelligence. It’s just a new wave of automation. We need to know what artificial intelligence can bring. We just need to refer to some previous automation developments and how automation affected the market before, so we can predict what will happen in the future.
Now we know that science and technology are changing with each passing day and developing very fast, and everyone in academia is studying it. In fact, the development speed of science and technology in the past was faster than now. The development of technologies such as railways and computers were all transforming society, which happened before. Recently, we have not seen such rapid development of science and technology.
Mr. Ren is right. The future is bright. Although artificial intelligence will make some changes in the labor market, people will be richer and have some new jobs, such as the emergence of more middle classes. I think this is just a change in the labor market, not making people unemployed.
hostPeter, I also want to ask you, regarding artificial intelligence, which country do you think will be dominant in the AI world? China or the United States?
Peter Cochrane: I think AI will dominate the world. AI will decide who will take the lead in the end, because AI mainly focuses on the processing of tasks, just as Jerry, I and Ren always agree. For example, if you buy computers for your employees, it is also an intelligent aid for them, and it has not yet reached the era of AI as a general technology. The first point that we really want to achieve is that we need to build a sustainable society. To achieve this, we should not think that we can achieve such a society with minor repairs, but need radical changes and changes.
These changes include biotechnology, nanotechnology, AI, robotics, IOT technology and Internet of Things technology. Only when these technologies are applied can we create a new future, such as reusing materials. If we want to do this, we need to use multiple technologies, which is a great challenge. I know that President Ren will support me very much.
Let me put it this way, we can’t consume more oil or energy, because we want the earth to be sustainable, we need to provide products to more people, and we need to build a sustainable ecosystem, and we must change the way we do things now.
hostWe just talked about innovation, and there is another very important word: trust. Mr. Ren, I want to ask you this question. Huawei has been under a lot of strict scrutiny because it is a leader in 5 G. Why do people have so much distrust of Huawei and what Huawei has done?
Zhengfei RenHundreds of years ago, people didn’t believe in textile machinery, because they destroyed it during the industrial revolution. But if there were no textile machinery, there would be no high-grade fabrics today. Now, the main producing country of high-grade fabrics is Britain, and the fabrics produced in other countries still can’t reach the level of Britain, which means that the emergence of textile machinery has not deprived textile workers of their rights, but also improved the level of textile. When the train appeared, it didn’t run as fast as the carriage. At that time, the train was laughed at. Today, everyone thinks that the train can pull heavy goods.
When trains first appeared in China, people regarded them as ghosts. How could this thing run away? Similarly, when the China high-speed rail just appeared, there was an accident with the China high-speed rail. After the accident, there was a negative voice about the high-speed rail at that time, but today no one does not say that the high-speed rail is good. I estimate that 100 out of 100 people say that the high-speed rail is a good thing.
Artificial intelligence is a bean sprout that was just born today. It has just sprouted, because when supercomputers, super programs and super connections just appeared in human society, artificial intelligence had an opportunity, and the dream in history just sprouted. At this time, people were very worried about artificial intelligence, worried that artificial intelligence would lead to unemployment, social structure and moral and ethical changes, and worried too much. But looking back today, in fact, our population has increased several times, but decades ago, the society was in a state of hunger, and now it is in an era of material surplus and consumption, because of the development of production.
The emergence of 5G is also an unexpected situation. Ten years ago, Turkish professor Edard Arikan wrote a mathematical paper. Unfortunately, we found that this paper was earlier than others, and we invested a lot of energy to make 5G. 5G itself is a tool, just like a track bed, which supports cars and trains. It is a support, and it doesn’t play any role in itself. But now everyone is arguing about 5G. It is necessary to prove that 5G and artificial intelligence can create for human beings through history. Therefore, people should give a kind of trust and tolerance to new things. The biggest feature of innovation is to give everyone academic freedom and allow you to have whimsy. Otherwise, why did Copernicus die to prove (Heliocentrism)? In the process of genetic engineering, we all suspect that it will bring side effects, but we can only prove it through experiments. So today, we should be tolerant of new technologies or trust them.
Moderator:Mr. Ren, are you disappointed and sorry that you have so much distrust of Huawei’s 5G technology?
Ren Zhengfei:First of all, China used to be a poor country and a backward country. Everyone thought that China could not catch up. As a result, a monster came out. It caught up, just like a train. The train ran faster and faster than a carriage. At this time, everyone had some distrust of new things. I think it will still be trusted after a long time. Now Europe has given Huawei many opportunities on a large scale, and the whole world has also given Huawei many opportunities. I think this is already very tolerant, and I am already satisfied. I can’t make everyone understand us, at least in a short time.
Zhang wenlinIn fact, the so-called distrust we are seeing now mainly comes from people who don’t understand 5G, and those who really understand 5G, including our operators, are generally very trusting, which is why our 5G business is developing very well despite a lot of noise and interference.
hostPresident Ren, you proposed to license all Huawei’s 5G technologies to western companies. You made this proposal. Have you received any contact from interested parties?
Zhengfei RenWe don’t authorize all western companies, we authorize one western company, which is exclusive, so that a company can obtain our permission, so that a large-scale market can support it. We think this company should be an American company. Because Europe has its own 5G, South Korea and Japan also have their own things, which should be adjusted in the process of improvement and development. However, the United States lacks this thing now, and we should give American companies an exclusive license, and it can compete with us all over the world, not only in the market range of the United States, but also globally. Of course, except for Mars, the moon and the sun, we can compete together in other places. The purpose of doing this is to hope that we will continue to start at the same starting line as the whole world. I believe that in the second round, maybe we will win.
I have already said that 5G is a pediatric matter, and the biggest industry in the future should be artificial intelligence. We hope that in artificial intelligence, we don’t create a second entity list, because it is impossible to exist, because it is based on software, and we may surpass it, but we don’t want conflicts to occur again. We hope to jointly provide services for mankind and the new society.
Peter CochraneI think there is a distorted situation now. For example, scientists, engineers and the whole company have distrust. I think this is a political problem. The problem is not technology or people engaged in technology, but a political problem. This is not a fear of technology. Because you see, 3G and 4G have similar fears, but there are some differences. Now social networks have amplified this influence, because everyone thinks that as long as the number is large, it means correctness. If many people are doing the same thing, then it will become a wide-ranging influence.
For example, there may be news released by 20 million social media in a very short time, so I think there is a need for some cooperation and efforts in the industry to dispel everyone’s doubts, which is what we need to do. Because there is no evidence to prove that there is a technical problem, if there is evidence, for example, you really have evidence to prove that technology can kill people in the medical industry, it will be a big problem. But I think we need tangible evidence to prove that new technology will really harm mankind, and there is no such evidence now.
In addition, there are some opinion leaders, who have published content such as gunshot wounds, but they have no actual evidence to prove the harm of 5G. In Britain, many people don’t want to have poles and networks.
host: Mr. Ren, let me follow up on the authorization you just said. What is the content of 5G’s authorization to an American company? Hardware, software, source code?
Zhengfei RenFirst of all, all patents are granted to this company fairly and without discrimination. Second, in the proprietary technology of 5G, all the experience of source program, source code, hardware technology, measurement and control, delivery and production, including the design of the chip can also be authorized if necessary. We hope that in the future, at a new starting line, we will start again with Europe, Japan, South Korea and the United States on the same starting line and make contributions to mankind together again. Because we are confident that we can win, we are confident of opening up.
hostYou sound very generous, but it gives other companies many opportunities to become huge competitors, and you may lose the leadership position of 5G. Are you willing to accept this result?
Zhengfei RenWe didn’t get a lot of money, so we can buy a lot of firewood, which will make our fire in the new technological innovation bigger and more prosperous and have a better chance to lead. Second, we have introduced powerful competitors, which can force no one of our 190,000 employees to be lazy and sleep late. After sleeping late, they may die. It’s impossible for me to urge employees to work hard now. Sheep are the healthiest only when wolves chase them away, so I’m not worried about having strong competitors crush Huawei. I’m really glad to crush Huawei, which shows that the world is greater and stronger. But if Huawei hadn’t been defeated, Huawei would have run faster and the slow sheep would have been eaten. I wouldn’t have to lay off the employees who didn’t run fast. These employees were eaten by wolves. What’s wrong with that? So I don’t think competitors will pose a threat, but will bring a spur to push me forward.
hostJerry is from America. What do you think American companies will think of this proposal? Do you think licensing will rebuild trust?
Jerry KaplanFirst of all, let me talk about trust, because I think there are a few mixed questions here. Peter is talking about the fear of technical trust, and Mr. Ren is talking about the trust of suppliers. The word trust is an emotional word in English. "You don’t trust me" is emotional, but it is not necessary to trust in business. What business needs is predictability and certainty. So I think that trust has different meanings, just like marriage. Marriage doesn’t necessarily need love. Of course, it may be happier if you have love, but sometimes you don’t need love to get married.
By the same token, what we need here is our mutual respect. If the United States does not respect other countries politically, it can’t have a constructive dialogue. I think licensing is one of the potential solutions, but there are many technical solutions that can be considered, including second suppliers and second sources. These technical means are all possible. In this case, all countries, including the United States, can protect their core infrastructure, which does not mean that Huawei cannot become an efficient supplier, because in business, I think Huawei can still help American companies in the American way.
hostMr. Ren, did you hear that? Can you rest assured of these businesses?
Zhengfei Ren: Understandable.
hostPeter, what do you think about this problem?
Peter Cochrane：I think technology, 5G and network depend on how we use them on this issue, because these technologies are all enabling technologies, including 5G. 5G is a huge driving factor, which can enable medical care, logistics, manufacturing and other industries. I think these technologies can quickly gather resources and support the development of these industries. If there is a new company, or an existing company, such as Mr. Ren, such a company can’t become very advanced and successful overnight. They all come from the R&D team, and they all have success and advantages because of the hard work of engineers and scientists.
Everyone has begun to think about what will happen after 5G, but from a realistic point of view, if 5G is to be deployed around the world, it will take the efforts of many companies to achieve it. When the market reaches a certain degree of maturity, the situation will be better when 5G enters the mature deployment stage, but at the beginning, we need a large number of suppliers to deploy technology quickly. This is also related to global climate change and social change, and we all need to change the way we do things.
Moderator:Mr. Ren, I know that you are also willing to sign the "no back door agreement", which you have been exploring with some European countries. Could you please explain the latest progress again?
Zhengfei RenIt has been proved for many years that we have no malicious motive to do something. Second, we have also been closely inspected in Britain and Germany. None of the equipment manufacturers has been subjected to such a rigorous physical examination, which proves that there is nothing wrong with our body and heart, our intestines and all aspects of us. Although Britain has also found some of our problems, it’s just that which part of the body is not healthy enough, and we can improve the unhealthy parts. Therefore, I don’t think we have any malicious problems. We are willing to support Europe and conduct physical examinations for equipment manufacturers and operators all over the world. We are confident that we can sign agreements with various countries without back doors, which we should be able to do.
Second, now we have invested a lot of R&D funds to solve the privacy protection that adapts to GDPR in Europe. Our company has set the basic goal of network progress in the next five years as network security and privacy protection as a high-level goal. The second-tier goal is to build a minimalist network, minimalist equipment, minimalist things, and make the network more simplified, safer, more reliable, and faster, as our supporting goal. We are working hard to do this, so we dare to promise the governments of various countries that we can guarantee that this is something we can do.
hostTrust is a real problem. Even if you say I am willing to sign this agreement, what if I just don’t trust you? Recently, we have also seen a real scene. Is it possible to decouple technology? One is the technological world in China, and the other is the technological world dominated by the United States. What do you think is the possibility?
Jerry Kaplan: This possibility does not exist. I think if it really happens, it will be very bad for both countries. Just as President Ren said just now, just like what happened in Europe and America is repeated, just like 3G and 4G, the same thing happened in Europe and America. At that time, the standards in Europe and America were different. Mobile phones could not be used freely between the two countries, and operators used different standards, which caused great problems.
hostPeter, what’s your opinion? What if China has a set of standards and the United States has a set of standards?
Peter CochraneI think this is a completely unsustainable scene for the earth, because the whole world of science and technology, we have spent billions to develop technology, we want to realize technology and realize large-scale application, we need to promote it, so that human beings can benefit. If a technology can only benefit from a small part of the market, how can it bring great benefits? No country in the United States, Europe, China or India has all the talents and resources it needs to achieve this single-handedly. After all, we are in a globalized market, and we are interdependent with each other. I think politicians may not realize this. In the whole process of globalization, all markets are interdependent.
hostPresident Ren, to what extent do you think it is possible for Huawei to decouple from these western technologies, or will you reduce your dependence on foreign technologies, and will this force you to develop your own technologies?
Zhengfei RenAt the earliest time, there were narrow rails, wide rails and standard rails on train tracks, which made the national transportation very inconvenient and greatly restricted the development of industrial society. The same is true for communication. There are three 3G standards and two 4G standards. Everyone thinks that these standards are different, which brings trouble and high cost to the society. Therefore, 5G is produced and only one standard is produced. Therefore, a standard of 5G is hundreds of countries. After more than 20 years of collective discussion, tens of thousands of scientists have finally produced the same standard, allowing the world to realize future connections on a standard architecture. This connection will help support artificial intelligence and support human society in the future.
If we want to decouple now, first of all, I don’t agree with it. My attitude is very simple. When American companies are willing to supply us with parts, I will definitely buy them. I would rather produce less of my own parts and buy them. In order to maintain globalization, I will not take the road of complete self-reliance, which will only lead to a closed result. Now this temporary forced behavior does not represent Huawei’s long-term ideal. Our long-term ideal is to integrate into this society and the world, and we will not take the lead in doing this.
So now that American companies are constantly changing, we are very welcome and happy to resume supply to us, and we will not hold any grudges. Therefore, we hope that the world will never be decoupled, and it has finally merged into a technological unity. If it is decoupled again, it will be unfavorable for mankind to create new wealth. Just now, the professor said that the market can only be divided into small pieces with high cost. There is no problem with technology realization, but it can only bring high cost. The purpose of globalization is to make full use of resources, reduce the cost of quality services and benefit the 7 billion people all over the world. This should be our ideal. Governing the river and operating in blocks should not be such an act.
hostLet’s talk about the "HarmonyOS" ecosystem. Will it be a very big technology? What do you think?
Zhengfei RenThis system in HarmonyOS has been developed for seven or eight years. The purpose of our system is to use it for the Internet of Things and future industrial control, so its biggest manifestation is low delay. However, we are still trying to find out whether HarmonyOS will provide services for terminals, because Google is a very friendly company and it is also very advanced. If American technology GMS cannot be opened to us, maybe we should make some efforts on this issue ourselves.
host: What does Jerry think?
Jerry KaplanI want to talk about standards. Just now, many topics have been mixed together. In fact, only with standards can we be interconnected. 5G is a very, very complicated concept. In fact, 5G is a lot of different network layers and different stacks. It is very difficult for the United States and China to have the same global standard. Although there are some trade issues, such as setting many restrictions on companies, in fact, we have encountered corresponding problems before. For example, printers have different standards before, and no one can benefit. There are previous PCs, such as IBM, which produced the first personal computer in 1982. If I remember correctly, everyone was authorized to use it at that time, so that personal computers could develop greatly. Later, like airplanes and mobile phones, in fact, the development of technology should not be confused with economic issues.
hostWhat do you think, Peter?
Peter CochraneI think we need to see different scenes. From an engineering point of view, we must realize that not only Huawei has been affected, for example, I have been using Apple computers all the time, and I have two Gmail mailboxes, both of which are American products. Now these two products will be subject to many restrictions and obstacles when used. In fact, this is not caused by technology or people in the market, but by politicians, as simple as that. It sounds ridiculous. I don’t think this should happen in the future world.
hostLet me ask you a challenging question. If there are two systems and decoupling in the future, it will definitely cause a lot of uncertainty. Who do you think will win in such a world? The United States won? Or will China win in the end? What does President Ren think?
Peter Cochrane：I think it will be China and the client. You know, the population of the United States is not that large, so where do you think people will go?
Zhang wenlinWhich standard is more open and embraces the whole world, which one will win. Because we have already experienced this course in the field of communication. In the field of communication, in the 2G era, one technology is better than another, but its standard is relatively closed, while the other standard is very open (such as 3GPP), so after 3G, 4G to 5G, the whole world embraced the 3GPP standard, while the other technology, which was originally very advanced, and all companies that invested in this technology, went on the wrong road, and our company experienced the whole history, so for this,
Zhengfei RenIn my opinion, the possibility of two ecosystems and division in the world should not exist.
First, although we are isolated from American scientists and professors, professors always publish papers, right? We can always read their papers, the second month after the publication of Turkish papers, and the third year after the publication of American papers, which will also have an impact on our science and technology.
Although the United States may run ahead and we run behind, the snow water from the Himalayas is the same. At present, the United States is still in the leading position in the world, the most powerful country in the world, and also has the most powerful technology. It is just like the snow on the top of the Himalayas. If science and technology are divorced, the snow water at the top of the Himalayas is not allowed to flow below, and the crops below will dry up, and the snow water above will not benefit. It should be the snow above that flows down, irrigates the crops below, and takes some benefits from the crops, so that the world moves towards the goal of globalization. If the United States does a lot of good things and doesn’t sell them, how can it make the United States a prosperous country?
If there is no water in the mountain road, the crops can’t live, so they have to find a way to dig wells to water their crops. Therefore, developing countries will look for alternatives because they can’t get supplies, but if the snow water on the mountain can’t flow down, it will be very cold and frozen, and its guests and workers will have to eat. If it doesn’t make money, science and technology can’t become a business, a commodity or occupy the global market, how will its economy shrink? Therefore, in my opinion, it is impossible for objective things to exclude any one from this world, and it is impossible for any one to rebuild a regional environment, but the form of realizing it is rather bumpy. A professor wrote "The World is Flat". I believe it is flat, but some of it is glaciers, which may be very painful in the past. You should be careful when walking on glaciers with flat roads. But no matter how rugged it is, the road to the world is all right, and it has finally come to the Internet age. In the Internet age, it is probably unrealistic to talk about the decoupling of science and technology and the division of regional autonomy.
Just now, Zhang Wenlin also said, which standard will win, CDMA has the technical advantage in the 2G era, and GSM was not so good at that time. Who saved GSM? China Because China didn’t accept the harsh conditions of CDMA, it bought a lot of GSM. At that time, GSM was disconnected when it was called in China, but it was constantly revised. In this environment, 3GPP advanced rapidly, became more open, and thousands, tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of companies flocked to do it, supporting the standard of 3GPP, thus forming an ecology and promoting the ecology, and this ecology was pushed to today’s 5G. So the victory of 5G is actually the victory of 3GPP.
Moderator:It seems that you are 100% sure that this technical decoupling will not happen. Would you like to say it again? Are you sure decoupling won’t happen?
Ren Zhengfei:Why am I sure I won’t decouple? In the Internet age, communication has been very widespread. It is impossible for American professors’ papers to be put in the refrigerator, and no one can see them. If American engineers can’t see them, the United States can’t make products. As long as he is released, everyone on the Internet can see it, and the people who see it will follow the theory of the American scientist, the theory of European scientists, or the pace of Russian mathematicians, and finally form an ecology that is still in the same level. This ecology may have high and low differences, but from the whole ecology, there should be no absolute difference.
hostPeter, what’s your opinion?
Peter CochraneIn history, we have never seen an example that isolation can succeed. No matter whether it is a company, a country or any organization, I think Mr. Ren is right. It is only a matter of time. Isolation cannot succeed.
Jerry KaplanAs for AI, I think the pattern is a little different. There is a theoretical analysis on who will win. Media friends also know that politicians and media friends say that it involves confrontation between countries, but in fact AI is a software technology, including programs and data, which contains a lot of value. In fact, AI is about programs and data. First of all, you have this program and software, and it will find laws and values from a large amount of data. This is the current use of AI. The key is that everyone will have AI technology, which is easy to obtain. I don’t think this is a problem for American companies, but the question is whether there is data. For example, the data collected in China may not be equally useful for other countries, so it involves a question of how to use data, which is very critical for AI.
For example, AT&T, a telecom operator, can’t directly use the data of China Telecom, which is not so valuable to them. For example, in China, facial recognition data is very useful for training facial recognition in other countries, such as the United States, but not necessarily so useful. So you can look at other examples, such as the film industry. Will China films win or American films win? This problem lies in the data again. I think Americans never worry that China movies will surpass Hollywood movies. No matter how excellent China movies are, it is impossible to take over Hollywood audiences. Therefore, I think that there are very specific issues involved here. Some concerns of governments are misplaced. It is not a nuclear weapon, which is different.
Peter CochraneI can think of other examples, the conflict between the United States and Japan in the automobile industry at that time. At that time, a large number of American auto workers were unemployed, because Japanese cars were of better quality and more cost-effective. At that time, a trade war broke out between the United States and Japan.
Jerry KaplanI thought you were going to talk about the fifth generation computing project. At that time, it was also very accidental. In fact, there was a long conflict between the United States and Japan about the fifth generation computing project, because it was a large-scale government project, both in Japan and the United States. In fact, they wasted a lot of government funds at that time, but the fifth generation computing project did not get good results. Now that we are in the AI era, we should avoid the same mistakes, and we can’t make the mistakes of the fifth-generation computing project at that time. I don’t think there will be any winners as you said.
Moderator:Jerry is glad to hear the word data. In the west and the United States, many people are concerned about data protection and privacy protection. President Ren, please judge whether what I said next is correct. China is more willing to share its own data and optimize its technology. This is the case in China. Data protection and privacy protection are issues of great concern to the West. Do you think this will have a very important impact on data innovation?
Zhang Wenlin:I am a big fan of Jerry, and I like his books very much, but I have different views with him on this issue. For artificial intelligence, data is really very important, and what we like about artificial intelligence technology very much is that the data in each region is different, and the data in each region has its own value. Maybe this data is not so valuable or attractive when it is taken to another region. The advantage is that artificial intelligence can bring business to every different region, and everyone can enjoy the innovation and business brought by this technology.
However, I think there is still a key problem in computing power. We think that the reason why artificial intelligence is available now is that many technologies, including connection technology, including high-performance computing, have developed for more than 60 years. The concept of artificial intelligence is actually very early, but it is basically available until now, because all these technologies have just started artificial intelligence. In the initial situation, only with a great breakthrough in computing power can artificial intelligence be available everywhere like the electricity we use now, and we can use it at any time. Therefore, we believe that the ability of infrastructure, including connectivity and computing, is crucial to artificial intelligence, and data is of course important, but it should not be such a serious problem now.
Zhengfei RenI think the concepts of data and privacy protection are very different in different countries. China people may be the most conservative and backward in the past, but now they are more open. They post everything they do on the Internet every day, and post it on their own, not others. It is said that if there is a security problem, you should never put photos casually, but people say that I would rather do nothing, and I just want to post photos online every day. This is the difference between young people in China and us. They think they don’t need to protect anything. Put it up.
Secondly, I think that privacy protection should be beneficial to social security, personal safety and social progress, and the harm to society caused by excessive protection is also bad. Let me give you an example. In Shenzhen, it should be ten years ago, there were about 18,000 incidents of robbing girls’ bags by motorcycle every year, compared with zero last year. There were 94 murders last year, but all of them were solved. Now, you see, China’s public security is in turn better than that of any other country in the world. Especially after our children come back from abroad, they all think that China’s public security is good, but it also sacrifices many people’s privacy, including mine. Wherever I drove, I was photographed and uploaded to the database. However, the database is authorized, and the police themselves cannot use it. The police have to get approval before they can access the database. Through such protection, there are basically no thieves in Shenzhen’s social security. Of course, if the social economy deteriorates, there may be risky behaviors, but they are basically gone, which is beneficial to the development of production and employment.
All these things are changing, and the whole of China is changing. In a sense, western concepts always say that this can’t be violated and that can’t be violated at all, which has caused bad social security. Especially in the United States, there are always shootings. If the United States sacrifices a little privacy and finds that this person has brought a gun to the mall, the police will stop it on the spot to avoid such an incident. Because of the need to protect privacy, more people’s lives are not protected. For privacy protection, we still need scientific analysis and management, especially for a sovereign country. How to manage information and data is each sovereign country’s own business, instead of unifying a standard across the world. It cannot be said that my country is this standard, and your country must also be this standard. As long as this country can protect good people without hurting good people and is conducive to social security, this sovereign country has the right to manage its own data.
hostWe talked about China’s protection of innovation and data. Everyone is so protective. Where do innovative companies get data? Do you want to get many things for free?
Peter CochraneFor example, if I get sick tonight, I have a case in the UK and I get sick in China. Because of GDPR, hospitals in China can’t get my case in the UK and other personal information because of data protection regulations. If I am sick, I will be very willing to provide my personal information to help me with my treatment. When I diagnose the disease, I am particularly willing to contribute my personal data to the doctor for diagnosis. So I think the question that should be considered is whether this will cause security problems for me personally and my family.
First of all, for me personally, my first consideration is whether it is convenient for my life and whether it makes life more convenient. For example, medical records, if you want, I am willing to provide you with a diagnosis of my illness, so that you can take good care of me.
Jerry KaplanI think there will be different privacy protection laws in different regions, because it involves social issues, cultural issues and legal issues. For example, China and the United States are different, which has historical reasons. Europe also has different legal requirements. AI needs a lot of data, so China has data, so it can make better use of artificial intelligence, so China has gained more benefits from AI. Including data sets, is more abundant in China. First of all, China has more data, but the United States doesn’t have that much data, and the United States can’t even understand how important this amount of data is. When I was in Shanghai, I found that the population in Shanghai is more than that in Texas, and the population who can speak English in China is more than that in the US Congress, so I think the United States has not understood the concept of quantity. If we can have more data, establish more data relationships and data sets, we can make better use of AI, which is easier to realize in China.
Zhang wenlinI would like to add that in fact, it is not necessary to obtain all the data to achieve technological progress. According to our analysis, what we need is to identify the correct type of data. We don’t need to obtain all the private data and complete works. Maybe in the initial stage, some Internet companies didn’t really figure out what kind of data they needed, and had such an exploration. But now, everyone has gradually realized that it is necessary to respect the protection of data privacy and respect individuals. As Peter said just now, we will contribute value, but we only need the minimum data and then produce the maximum possible value.
host: Is it only a matter of time before China introduces a privacy protection law?
Ren Zhengfei:Privacy protection law should be introduced, and it should be very strict, and illegal access to and illegal use of data should be dealt with very strictly. What I just said was that the sovereign government, the police or people with judicial power should be able to grasp the data, not the ordinary people. There are also cases of reselling data in China, such as who is pregnant and who is pregnant. This information was stolen by some bad elements. He sold this information to companies that make milk powder and let these companies sell it. This exposed people’s privacy, which is incorrect. Stealing the patient’s information, stealing the phone number and giving the privacy of the phone number to the bad guys, it is China’s responsibility to strengthen protection, severely punish and purify the society.
We always support the European system of GDPR, and our equipment must resolutely achieve this. I also support our country to make continuous progress in information management. I think there have been many improvements in the past two years. The first two years were very chaotic. It seems that there has been some control in these two years. I think that privacy protection in China should be gradually changed, so that everyone can live in a convenient and safe environment, which is the happiness that people most desire.
hostWhat kind of rules and regulations should the government set up? For example, what do you think about developing new technologies?
Peter CochraneIf these data are leaked due to negligence, there is indeed a price. Any organization may be attacked by hackers. It is possible that the hacker is only a 15-year-old child in his bedroom. Now network security really needs to spend a lot of money to invest and strengthen. For example, I have seen various organizations such as banks and the Ministry of National Defense attacked by hackers. Fortunately, it didn’t cause much damage. After all, the data are distributed in different organizations.
Moderator:Some government officials don’t understand the new technology, and some people may still think that the new technology is not good. If they don’t understand the new technology, how can they set rules and manage it?
Jerry Kaplan: I thinkI can’t give you a clear answer to this question, but when it comes to data protection, I need to be clear. First of all, this problem is not the use of data, but the collection of data. When collecting data, we should tell people what the purpose is, how to use it, and how long it will be kept. We need to provide transparency as much as possible. For example, you should let users know how you want to use these data.
Ren Zhengfei:I think the whole society should be tolerant of new technologies, because without academic freedom and freedom of thought, there can be no creation and invention. When an invention is invented, it may sometimes be beneficial to human beings, or it may be detrimental to human beings, and it will only be slowly recognized after the invention is created. For example, some people think that the invention of the atomic bomb is harmful to human society, but if we do further research on the atomic bomb, we will use atomic energy, which is now more and more beneficial to mankind on the road of atomic energy. In many things, we should be more tolerant of new technologies. If scientists take a traditional view to evaluate new things, then I estimate that the birth of new technologies is very difficult, and the progress of human society is as slow as in the Middle Ages. Especially genetic technology, whether the emergence of genetic technology is beneficial to human beings or not will be proved by time. Maybe it is harmful to human beings, maybe a few people’s experiments may also bring happiness to billions of people. We can’t exclude all of them. Artificial intelligence is mainly used in the improvement of production process and products in our company, but it has not entered the research of social ethics. But sociologists have put forward some ideas about artificial intelligence. I think that within at least 30 years, there will be no problems that sociologists think, so we should be more tolerant of the problems of artificial intelligence and don’t always hinder the progress of artificial intelligence.
Some new technologies, new sciences and new ideas will always break through people’s traditions and will never be accepted by the majority. Sometimes the truth is in the hands of a few people. If a few people have Internet voting evaluation, it will definitely be negative because most people don’t understand. Therefore, we think that sometimes the minority should be protected, and the government’s policies, jurisprudence, social ethics and social tolerance should all protect the minority. Even if they may go to the edge, we will tolerate them and still come back, otherwise social progress will be slow and the promotion of national competitiveness will be slow.
Just like when we were just growing up, it was the era when China’s economy was just reforming and opening up. At that time, because 20 million educated young people had to return to cities from rural areas, they could not find jobs after returning to cities. Because young people didn’t want to make trouble in the harsh and lonely environment in rural areas, the state agreed to let them return to cities, but cities could not arrange jobs, so they were only allowed to sell big bowls of tea and steamed buns. This is how private enterprises in China were born. Since the birth of selling big bowls of tea and steamed bread, the state has issued a document that more than five or eight people are capitalist enterprises and are not allowed to develop. At that time, we had more than eight employees, so we still have to thank the local governments for their tolerance, which didn’t put us into the cage of capitalism, and gradually allowed us to grow and develop. Now we have to pay 20 billion US dollars in taxes to governments all over the world every year. Our contribution to the world is at least $20 billion in taxes, not to mention the consumption of our employees, which has brought about various social progress. If there was no tolerance for us in the early days, there would be no Huawei today. I think we should give more tolerance and freedom to new things, so that we can create a better tomorrow.
Zhang wenlinAt present, the discussion in the industry is very heated. Everyone is worried or afraid about this issue. The best thing is for everyone to come together and discuss.
Zhengfei RenThere will be no result. Everyone has been arguing for decades and nothing has come of it.
Zhang wenlinWe believe that there is a platform to collect everyone’s concerns. As a technology company, we should pay attention to the possible negative effects of digital technology on data protection in the process of rapid development, and as a technology company, the first point is to abide by the laws of all countries, and the second is to respect the privacy of customers and the sovereignty of data.
Zhengfei RenI feel that no matter how many people sit together, there will be no result. The result is a hundred flowers blooming, and the social effect will be evaluated.
Zhang wenlinWe have made progress in the industry, and we need everyone to sit together and discuss it. Otherwise, people who don’t understand are challenging every day, and people who know don’t tell you. Technology itself is not complicated, just like revealing the secrets behind magic. It is necessary for everyone to understand that a framework based on rationality and understanding of technology should be reached under communication, which will help people who don’t understand. For technology companies, any technology company should not take advantage of its better understanding of technology to try to deprive users of the right to choose. Technology companies should try their best to leave the problem to themselves, let users know what this technology is and what rights it has, and leave the right to choose to users. In this way, the trust between us and users and society can be established.
hostAre you open to new technologies in China?
Zhengfei RenIn my opinion, China should first pay attention to basic education and basic research, and have the ability to keep pace with the world. At present, the whole education system is relatively developed in the west, because their academic freedom is relatively open. For example, a classmate in a school has 100 courses to choose from, and he can choose 32 courses in a semester. The classmates’ courses are different. And China is a unified teaching material, and it is better than the test scores, which one is not higher than which one. China’s scientific and technological breakthrough needs leading figures. The leader is even taller, more than 3.8 meters.
What we seek is to strengthen our strength. For us, this is a new requirement and opportunity given by the times. Because we are a global company, not limited to China, our basic research is basically in the Tropic of Cancer. There are more than 30,000 foreign employees in the United States, Canada, Britain, Eastern Europe, Russia, Japan and other places. The company has 70,000 to 80,000 R&D personnel, some of whom are scientists and some are top experts. Together, they have formed opportunities and enabled us to go forward without any restrictions. We just want to make more contributions to new technologies, and we don’t want to be the exclusive hegemony of business. Because we are not a listed company, we do not seek to improve financial statements, but only to enhance our strength. So nothing is holding us back.
hostClose to the final discussion, I hope you can think about it. We talked about innovation and AI. What is the next big technology? Let’s make a prediction.
Jerry Kaplan: It is a technology that has an impact on the industry. I think it will be augmented reality and will have a huge impact. For example, if you put on your glasses, you will see another virtual image superimposed in the real world. You can play games, interact with other people and communicate with friends remotely. He will have a holographic image, just like sitting next to you, but the physics exists in another place. I think this will change the perception of the world, which will change the communication between people. Because there will be many ways to get along with virtual reality, because there will be many elves and ghosts around. 5G and AI will have a further impact, which will happen in the next decade.
Peter CochraneLast week, a paper disappeared quickly. This is a paper by Google. This paper talked about its dominant position in quantum computing. I’m not sure why that paper disappeared quickly. They mentioned quantum computing. The reason behind it is that if quantum computing can be realized, we can really understand chemistry, biology, life sciences and intelligence, because if there is quantum computing, we can successfully solve some deep-rooted problems. Therefore, they believe that quantum computing can solve 98% of the problems that cannot be solved at present, and it will be a difficult technology with leap-forward development, which will affect all walks of life in society. I think it will affect everything and it is difficult to make a quantitative evaluation. If there are 100 qubits, it may already be very strong, and if there are 1000 qubits, it may be an order of magnitude enhancement.
host: Mr. Ren, what fields will you let engineers do? Which direction will your laboratory develop science and technology in the next step? What is your secret black technology?
Zhengfei RenWhat will the future era look like? I think every technology is breaking through the frontier. I don’t know what the scene of this society will be when the breakthrough technologies cross disciplines. But I hope our company can find its place in this scene. In my opinion, our strategic highland is the traffic of receiving data and processing the traffic of distributing data, storing and processing these traffic. I think the river, like the movie Farewell Atlantis, is full of tides, and there must be opportunities. I only think that the pipeline of 5G is still very small, and even though our light has been transmitted to the G8 generation, it still can’t shape such traffic. Along this road, we can still go on.
Zhang wenlinI agree with Mr. Ren’s overall idea, but the expression may be different. I think it is artificial intelligence in the end, because artificial intelligence is not a technology. At present, artificial intelligence has just begun to be available. Almost all technologies have developed to this stage, so that the computing power of artificial intelligence and the data brought by the connection of everything can produce value. In the future, we think that artificial intelligence still has a long way to go. In this process, biotechnology, material technology, molecular technology and manufacturing technology. At the same time, the development of artificial intelligence has brought more data, that is, the huge amount of data mentioned by President Ren. The idea of our company now is that we will make the processing and calculation of these data simpler, cheaper and more ubiquitous. Just like people use electricity now, you can’t even feel where electricity is being generated or transmitted, and you can get electricity at any time by plugging it in. This is what our company expects and is focusing on.
host: Is Huawei developing 6G? Is this the technology you are developing?
Zhengfei RenHuawei’s 6G and 5G technologies are parallel in the development process, and 6G has been in contact for a long time. 6G is mainly millimeter wave, because it has a very wide bandwidth, but it may sacrifice the transmission distance. Therefore, it is still very early for our company to put the 6G real scale project into use, and it is still a limited process.
Zhang wenlinIt will be ten years later, because the rule of our industry is that one generation is generated every ten years, and I participated in the earliest process of conceiving 5G mentioned by President Ren. I have always been very impressed by a professor from the University of Surrey in the UK. Ten years ago, we asked him to discuss "what is 5G", and he told us a concept, "There should be 100 times 1 million connections within a square kilometer". At that time, we felt that it was incomprehensible.
Now Mr. Ren says that 6G is still being explored, and even what Mr. Ren just said (the future prospect) will not be realized in the future. Now everyone is just exploring and looking for concepts. Moreover, the law in this industry is that if we see any country or any company want to cross 1G, in fact, it will miss the opportunity. A country that does well in 3G will surely develop well in its 4G, and only after the 4G foundation is laid can it develop well. Any country, any company wants to cross 1G, and now 5G is coming. Let’s wait for the development of 6G. I have seen many such failure cases.
hostMr. Ren, do you think Huawei will take the lead in 6G?
Zhengfei Ren: (nodding)
hostThank you for your answer. This is our dialogue session today, followed by a question and answer, which will pass on the microphone to you. Sir, please introduce yourself first.
journalistI am a public opinion leader from America. I would like to ask Mr. Ren, what should I do if I go beyond the national boundaries and use good technology to achieve technical inclusion?
Zhengfei RenHuawei regards technology as technology, and technology is just a tool. Screwdrivers and wrenches are used all over the world. We regard 5G as an egg, not as an atomic bomb. I think it can be widely used. Therefore, I think that technology should not be politicized first, but should be selected through competition and comparison between business and market, so that everyone can share the benefits brought by the same new technology.
hostDo other experts want to answer this question, and how to achieve technical inclusion?
Peter CochraneGlobalization is irreversible. Under this premise, any country that wants to go against the trend will have costs and sacrifices. This isolation policy has never been successful in the past.
hostAnswer the next question, lady in pink, and introduce yourself first. Please use the microphone.
journalist: the development of artificial intelligence, guests including Mr. Ren, do you think it will aggravate social inequality? A few people who produce disposable data and most people who produce data (but not necessarily dominate these big data)? Due to recent events, is Huawei’s revenue expected to fall by 30 billion US dollars? But some executives said $10 billion before, so what adjustments have been made to make expectations better?
Zhengfei RenFirst of all, it is certain whether artificial intelligence will affect the gap between countries. The foundation of artificial intelligence in the future is education and the cultivation of talents. The second problem is infrastructure, because artificial intelligence is software, which is an all-encompassing collection. It needs a supporting system, which is a high-performance computing system, or it may be a super-large computer group, not one or two, but ten thousand. Large data mature systems and super-mature connection systems support its possible operation, which requires a lot of infrastructure investment. If the investment is not enough, but the software is good, it means that there are cars but no roads, so cars.
In the future, there may be some differentiation in social wealth. The world should formulate some rules to allow some rich countries to help some poor countries, such as education, and gradually make the world rich together, but the gap will certainly increase with the application of artificial intelligence, and the speed of increase will become faster.
The second question about the impairment of our company’s output value is not that the sales revenue dropped last year, but that it dropped in our growth target plan. Some people say that it is about 10 billion yuan, and I estimate it is similar, and it may be a little less, so I can’t say for sure. I can’t tell you the figures now. The finance will show that there will be no new news points in 2008. Keep it for them to tell.
Jerry Kaplan：I want to briefly introduce that AI is actually automation. Karl Marx once explained that automation is actually replacing capital. In other words, if you have capital, then you can get the advantages brought by technology first. If there is automation, such as AI, wealth will be forced to be distributed more equally. Therefore, we should think more about the rules of society and conform to the laws of economics. We should let the laws of economics meet the requirements and purposes of society, so we should just pursue high GDP and let a few people benefit.
Moderator:Let’s ask the audience another question. The lady in black in the front row.
journalistThank you, moderator. I have a question about today’s theme. Today, several guests have mentioned the topic of trust. I have the impression that Mr. Jerry thinks that the word trust has an attitude and position, and we can understand it as a subjective word. I want to ask Mr. Ren Zong and the two guests first. If the other party we want to gain trust has innate opposition and subjective prejudice, do you think it is possible to gain trust in this case? We have also noticed that Ren Zong has been interviewed by overseas media frequently, which is actually rare in Huawei and my own experience. What do you think of your work of speaking out to the outside world in the past year?
Zhengfei RenWe think it is impossible for the sky to turn gray gradually, from black color to dark gray to light gray, and then to the clear sky in Wan Li. We keep making voices and let the world media spread our true situation to the world in the process of communication. When the world begins to understand, we should die soon, but as a result, we are not dead. The world says that you have stock materials, but you can still insist on production. We are producing hundreds of billions of dollars, and our materials need 780 billion dollars. How can we have so much money to store so many materials? So in fact, we don’t have stock materials to produce.
By the first half of this year, everyone was interested in our financial statements. Of course, I satirized our financial statements. Did we take advantage of our customers’ sympathy? The watch in the second half of the year can even prove that our company survived on its own. Why do customers trust us? They believe that Huawei is a good company and an honest company because they have been in contact for more than twenty or thirty years. Second, a large number of western companies have obtained products without American parts, and their confidence has greatly increased, believing that we can supply their goods. Why did we increase the number of people visiting Huawei by 69% during this period, that is, to see if people from Huawei are at work? When reporters come, the first step is to watch our shuttle bus to and from work. There are still so many people going to and from work, which means they are still there. The second is to show you the canteen, and there are so many people eating; The third show you the production line, which has never stopped. Enhance the trust of social customers in us.
This trust came out little by little by our actual actions, and it also brought us a lot of help by your media’s realistic evaluation in the media process. It is estimated that our financial statements will be good in the first half of next year, not bad, and there is no big increase.
When financial statements are issued in June next year, people may think "it really survived", and by the end of next year, people will really believe that Huawei really survived. Two years. After 2021, everyone saw that Huawei resumed its growth. "Oh, they solved their own difficulties and started to grow." Trust does not depend on persuading others, but on their own efforts. Only your real efforts can bring trust, and any practice can bring trust, distrust and abnormal views, but in the end, we must respect the facts, so we believe that trust can be regained.
Jerry Kaplan：I want to answer this question briefly. If you listen to political dialogue, what you hear is distrust, or some insulting words, some accusations and accusations. But more importantly, we have to understand that these political dialogues are actually only for people in his own region. If you live in San Francisco like me, you may know that many things reported in China media have not been passed on. For example, people in China respect people in each other’s communities very much, and you can see that conflicts in political angles have made civil dialogue more difficult. But in fact, the civil dialogue is very smooth, so I hope the people of China can understand that we respect the people of China very much, and we regard the people of China as a very important member of the world community.
hostWill you come to China again next year?
Jerry KaplanOf course I will come if you invite me.
journalist: Does the proposal that Ren Zong is willing to sell 5G technology to American companies mean that Huawei can now make 5G products and equipment without relying on American technology and suppliers? Could you please ask Mr. Ren to clarify whether the American components have been removed from the 5G products that Huawei is shipping now?
The second is about Huawei’s financing plan. This month, we saw the winning bid of 6 billion yuan, which shows that Huawei seems to be registered to issue bonds in general with an amount of 30 billion yuan. Could you please ask President Ren to confirm whether this round of overall financing plan is 30 billion yuan or more? Within what timetable is it planned to be completed? Is it because domestic banks have some preferential policies to support it in difficult times that they choose to issue bonds in China for the first time?
Zhengfei RenFirst, can we survive completely out of American supply? It should be true. But we can still use American parts to do it. In August and September, we conducted a running-in experiment on the new version switching. This running-in experiment was only 5,000 base stations in the United States, and mass production began after September and October. This year’s output is 600,000 base stations, and next year it will be 1.5 million base stations. Of course, we are still eager for the West to resume the supply of spare parts, because we have been friends with western companies for 30 years, and people still have feelings. We can’t just make money for us and make friends unable to make money. We can’t do this.
Secondly, I didn’t know about issuing bonds in advance. I didn’t call the people in our asset management department until I saw the news outside. They said that we must issue bonds at the best time to enhance social understanding and trust, and we can’t issue bonds only when it is difficult. This is the first point. Second, the cost of issuing bonds is low. Why? If we increase employees’ investment in enterprises, the cost is too high, the dividend is too high, and the financing is only 4%, which is much lower. Then why can’t we increase the financing method?
Third, in the past, we mainly financed from western banks, but now the financing channels in the west are not very smooth, so let’s try financing from domestic banks instead. In the past, the interest point of domestic banks was relatively high, so now we look at this thing, whether the final financing is 30 billion or 20 billion. Now I’m not very sure. Anyway, they can issue as many debts as they want, because our funds are relatively abundant, and we hope to pay more to universities and scientific research institutions.
Peter CochraneIn fact, I think our listeners should also know that in the past decade, the focus of technology has shifted more and more from the west to the east, such as flat-panel TVs or 6-nanometer chips. These latest technologies are all from Southeast Asian countries. In fact, such a shift may not be a very big step, or everyone thinks that this is not the so-called regional autonomy. I think this is not putting all the eggs in one basket. Everyone should share technology more, and bilateral trade is also very important. Actually, I think we can achieve it.
journalistI’m from The Times of India. I’m very surprised. India is very developed in technical research, but it seems that you don’t have any research centers there. I want to ask you what you think of the Indian market. What do you think of some regulatory challenges in the Indian market?
Zhang wenlinWe feel that India has a very good talent and foundation. In fact, 15 years ago, we set up a large R&D center in Bangalore, India, with more than 3,000 people so far, and this R&D center has been playing a very important role.
In addition, the Indian market has always been a very important market for us. For so many years, our business in the Indian market is still very good, and the control policy of the Indian market is relatively open, and there are a lot of communication and exchanges with us. I have learned so much so far.
Zhengfei RenFor the Indian market, the Indian government should think about how to introduce new adaptive laws and policies after the Indian government used to control telecommunications based on the management of voice rules. As I said just now, infrastructure is the foundation of a country’s economic development, and communication is a part of infrastructure, which is a very important part.